MONTY THE ANSWER
MAN ARCHIVE
Swift
Continental IO-360 Information
CONTINENTAL IO-360
AD...
AD 97-26-17, (replace airmelt crank with vacuum arc remelt {VAC} crank),
has been mailed to all those concerned and includes the straight IO-360s
(not just the turbos). Apparently, FAA data showed that 5 of the 8 airmelt
crankshaft failures occurred on IO-360 (non-turbo) engines and of the
five, two had more than 1,200 hours total time. The FAA’s position
is that the failures are random and time in service is not the determining
factor. So, how to tell which crank is which? Swifter Jim Montague
has the following advice:
“As you probably know
by now, AD 97-26-17 is out; making replacement of Continental IO-360 crankshafts
mandatory at overhaul. FYI - A VAR crank may be identified by removing
the propeller. A 6 digit serial number will be visible on the crankshaft
flange. From memory, an airmelt crank might have a part number, 639200,
in ink on the flange (or 639786), this is not a serial number. Otherwise,
when #6 cylinder is removed, VAR should be visible cast on the crank cheek.”
WOW! THE ANWSER MAN HAS
A QUESTION !!!
From Jim Montague...(posted on the Yahoo! Globe Temco Swift Club page)
I maintain a Swift with an IO-360 Cont. engine. When it sits for over
a month it idles very rough and will hardly run at less than full throttle.
At idle, the mixture control needs to be backed out considerably, just
to run. After a hour or so of running, it seems ok. If the airplane is
flown at least every week, this problem never shows up. The fuel injection
components were sent in to a repair station - no trouble was found. I
suspect something with the fuel pump. Any ideas?
Answer from Tony Jolly (agjolly@netdoor.com)
With the symptoms you gave there are a couple of things that might be
a problem.
1. I understand this is a fuel Injected engine - If this is true, there
should be some sort of fuel regulation to the injection system. If this
is sticking open and allowing to much fuel pressure it could cause the
symptoms.
2. As fuel sits for extended periods, some contaminates or additives of
the fuel could fall out or make deposits in the fuel system. You might
try turning off your fuel - when you know it will be down for a while
- and starve the engine of fuel for final shutdown.
3. It could be something in the Air components of the fuel system because
it sounds as if it is running very rich.
WOW! THE ANSWER MAN HAS
A QUESTION !!! PART TWO...
We ran the following question from Jim Montague last month:
From Jim Montague...(posted on the Yahoo! Globe Temco Swift Club page)
I maintain a Swift with an IO-360 Cont. engine. When it sits for over
a month it idles very rough and will hardly run at less than full throttle.
At idle, the mixture control needs to be backed out considerably, just
to run. After a hour or so of running, it seems ok. If the airplane is
flown at least every week, this problem never shows up. The fuel injection
components were sent in to a repair station - no trouble was found. I
suspect something with the fuel pump. Any ideas?
Here is a reply from Michael
Kennedy of the Swift Magic Aerobatic Team (SMAT3@aol.com)...
Jim:
I have had this problem a few times with my Swift after long period of
not running -- mainly when I was still in the AF flying fighters and away
on overseas duties. The problem is the O-ring in the fuel controller
at the throttle butterfly valve. It has a tendency to shrink up when not
in contact with fuel. This causes the rough running with too much fuel
by passing to the injection manifold valve. After the O-ring has been
in contact with fuel it gets back to normal size and the problem goes
away. Lowell and I took awhile figuring this out when we were both in
the Miami area. Instead of running the engine to clear this up, you can
try running your boost pump the day before you are going to fly. This
will get fuel through the system and the O-ring should be back to normal
the next day. -- Michael Kennedy
PS. You are not supposed to open the fuel metering housing to change the
O-ring. But there is nothing in there but the metering ring with the O-ring
around it.
LYCOMING VS CONTINENTAL
AIRSTARTS... From Swifter Madison Jones...
On the Cont. IO-360 fuel starvation issue, I can certainly attest to how
difficult it is to get them going again compared to the Lycoming IO-360.
After having run the aux tanks empty rountinely to the point of engine
stoppage (on the Lycoming), and then having the fire light right off,
no problemo, I was not concerned when, flying a friend’s Continental
IO-360, the engine quit due to having the aux tank run dry over the mountains
one nice day when I was at 9,500’ msl. By the time it started running
again, I had descended to BELOW the level of the adjacent ground level,
and was in the Spokane River cut through the mountains, approximately
4000’ msl. Not only must you use the fuel boost, you must be
careful about it lest you flood the system (or whatever I did for over
5000’). For those who have not totally lost an engine before, be
aware that even at reasonable glide speeds of about 85 mph, in flat
pitch a Swift drops like a piano tossed out the 10th story window. The
whole adventure didn’t take more than a couple of minutes, but I
did appreciate the difference between Lycoming and Continental injection
systems. Needless to say, I like the Lycoming much better. ----Madison
Jones
SMAT 3 CHECKS IN...
News from Swift Magic Aerobatic Team member Michael Kennedy (smat3@aol.com)
and his opinion on the Continental IO-360 airstart problem related by
Swifter Madison Jones (ab5tv@ix.netcom.com) in last month’s Swiftweb:
Note on Continental airstart.
The altitude was the problem. At 9500 ft you can only use low boost when
the engine stops. High boost will flood it out until you get to lower
altitude. We run our tanks dry all the time to insure they are empty before
performing for a show. I have never had more than a few seconds of silence
and not lost any altitude. This is why the Continental IO-360 STC has
a two position fuel boost switch included. High boost is only to prime
for start. It can be used to catch a empty tank, but even at lower altitudes
it could be too much. I have a two light warning system for my boost switch
- Yellow, low boost on, RED high boost on. You need to know which boost
position is selected, especially if you loose the engine pump at low altitude.
High boost could keep you from getting your engine restarted. --
Michael Kennedy
CONTINENTAL IO-360 OIL
CAPACITY... (7399)
Subject: Re: Oil capacity
From: Pete King <peetking@earthlink.net>
Hi, Jim,
The Continental IO360 has a 10 quart sump. However they won't operate
at that capacity -- since it seems to throw out anything over 6 quarts.
The engine would run cooler with 10. Do you know of a FIX ? Regards, Pete
King
Pete:
We have several IO-360's here locally and none seem to have that problem.
On my O-300 I run 6 or 7 quarts to avoid throwing out the last quart.
I will ask some of the IO-360 guys about this, but I don't believe anyone
has to run over a quart low. -- Jim
CONTINENTAL IO-360s THROWING
OUT OIL... (7499)
Subject: Re: Oil capacity
From: Pete King <peetking@earthlink.net>
Hi, Jim,
The Continental IO360 has a 10 quart sump. However they won't operate
at that capacity -- since it seems to throw out anything over 6 quarts.
The engine would run cooler with 10. Do you know of a FIX ? Regards, Pete
King
Pete:
I polled the local IO-360 owners. Doc Goodlad has no problem with throwing
oil out. (IO-360C) Daryl Dressler has no problem. (IO-360D) Harry
Lyon uses hardly any oil. (IO-360D) Mark Holliday uses no oil with his
IO-360A but says their Skyhawk XP with the IO-360K threw out anything
over 6 quarts. That sump was meant to hold 8 quarts. I guess thats all
I know. -- Jim
CONTINENTAL IO-360 STUFF... (7499)
From: Sandb12345@aol.com
Subject: N80776 update
Again thanks for the updates! Lots of good information. Something to think
about! N80776 has a Cont.I0-360-C. Ran fine at sea level but above five
thousand feet on take off would surge and quit. Some use of the boost
pump kept the engine running out of Clayton NM. Then in the air the air
pressure on the vent kept it running. But no way out of Durango NM. almost
seven thousand feet. Left it there. (the company I flew for had a citation
that flew in to Durango twice a week) Went back four times taking off
fuel pumps, injection system ect. All rebuilt still wouldn't run. Checked
the fitting on the Dukes pump found a loose fitting from the tank to the
pump, tightened it and Wa-La it ran. I flew it home after 20 days on the
ramp! It still has a problem with cutting out when it's hot, but I plan
on tracing the fuel line from the tank up. Any body have any ideas?
The STC for the 210 installation
details how the resistors are wired in to make a high and low speed pump.
It involves 2ea. 2 ohm resistors in the "hi boost" and one 2 ohm resistor
in the "lo boost" side of the switch. Did not whoever did your engine
installation do that? Did they not place a copy of the STC in the aircraft
records? I would double check everything. But I think you have found
the main culprit. Did whoever who did your conversion route the vapor
return line per the STC? It's important! I have seen several that are
not per the STC! -- Jim
From: Don Bartholomew <spectro@nanosecond.com>
Organization: The Aeroplane Factory
Subject: Re: N80776 update
Check the fuel lines for
the old style stainless braid Aeroquip hose. These had a nasty problem
of developing small holes that would suck air in, but would not leak air
out. If you have this type of line, replace all of them with either a
rubber outer braid Aeroquip or Stratoflex stainless.
Another item to check is
where the return line from the injector pump is going. It should go the
the top of the fuel neck, just under the gauge. If it goes to any place
that has fuel standing, like the sump, there is to much back pressure,
and this can cause a problem of running rich. You stated you changed the
pump and injection, but was the injection set up per Continental Service
Bulletin SID97-3? Just because the pressures were set when the pump/injection
was rebuilt, doesn't mean that it is correct for the installation. By
setting the system per the SB, you can get an idea if you are sucking
air from the pressure gauge readings.
The pump called for in the
STC is a single speed pump that runs through resistors both for high and
low speed. If you don't have ALL the paperwork for the STC, contact Suzanne
Evans at Merlyn Products and get the paperwork then check what is supposed
to be against what is there. -- Good luck -- Don Bartholomew
From: SMAT3@aol.com
Subject: IO-360 reply
Sheridan:
The Dukes boost pump for the IO-360 has two speeds through resistors.
The High setting is for priming the engine for start and the low speed
to back up the engine driven pump. The high speed side can flood the engine
if used in flight -- there is a noticeable increase in fuel pressure if
you turn it on in flight and it will change your mixture considerably.
It is not recommended to turn the boost pump on during take off or landing
except if your engine driven quits -- i.e., the engine stops and you don't
know why -- boost on and switch tanks!(assuming you have long range tanks
too) Many of us have placed the boost pump switch near the throttle so
it is easy to reach in an emergency. Interestingly enough, Beechcraft
also states that the boost pump should not be used except in an emergency
for my Bonanza too.
As for the IO-360 problem,
I would ask if you have the proper mixture set at the throttle body. This
mixture is set with a screw head in a sleeve on the side of the throttle
body where the hose goes to the injector spider and must be adjusted for
each individual aircraft. A simple check is to run the engine at 1000
rpm and slowly pull out the mixture. The rpm should rise about 50 rpm
just before the engine quits. If it does not rise but just quits suddenly,
the mixture is too lean. This would be very noticeable when the engine
is hot and you push the throttle in -- it would also be cured by turning
on the boost pump which makes the mixture run rich. If the rpm gains much
over 150 rpm before stopping, it is too rich. This should not cause cutting
out unless it is really rich which would be very noticeable on the above
check. If you have checked this and the fuel lines, I do not have any
other ideas right now. -- Michael Kennedy
(Editor's note... Got this
reply from Sheridan: "Didn't think I would have all this expert advice!
This is a neat group! Thanks for your speedy reply!!! Sheridan")
On to more IO-360 Stuff -- Page
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