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BRAKES
AND WHEELS PAGE TWO...
WELDABLE MASTER
CYLINDER???
From: Ed Lloyd <edlloydaustin@juno.com>
Hi Jim,
I saw Bob's dilemma on Yahoo site. Do you know if the aluminum in the
brake cylinder is weldable? If it is, I may be able to repair his old
cylinder if all else fails. If the end can be heliarced back on, I feel
I can rework the inside for him in my lathe. Would rather see him do that
than change configuration. Cheers........Ed Lloyd
Ed:
To my memory, the master cylinders were steel, and, I think, brazed together.
I went over to the airport this morning with magnet in hand, and yes,
they are steel. It shouldn't be too hard to braze one back together if
that's all thats wrong with it. -- Jim
STOCK GOODYEAR WHEELS
AND BRAKES... (12199)
CLIP JOINT...
Subj: Brakes
From: peetking@earthlink.net (Pete King)
Jim,
Much talk about brakes makes me curious. I currently fly both types of
brakes and have never had trouble with them being inadequate in stopping.
The only differences of note are two. The Goodyear model takes longer
to service or change pucks -- thou you don't need a rivit tool -- which
I don't own. As originally designed the Goodyear model only used four
retaining clips for the brake disc. If, as too many of us know, even one
clip was broken or otherwise lost, you were a disaster waiting to happen.
If, however, eight clips were used instead of four -- the problem goes
away. After having a wheel go to pieces several years ago, I added four
button style clips to the original four that were held in by the peg cast
into the wheel. Haven't even had one clip break in several hundred hours
-- much less worry about losing another brake or having one lock up. I
would like to have some spare clips -- just in case -- insurance. Do you
know who sells them?? Regards, Pete King
Pete,
No, I don't know who might have some spare clips. If you haven't priced
them lately get ready for some sticker shock! Pat Moore has a complete
set of Goodyear low flange wheels and brakes, including tires, for $200.00.
This includes the clips. I think 8ea. of those clips cost more than that
these days! -- Jim
CLEVELAND WHEELS AND
BRAKES INSTALLATION... (12399)
Subject: Re: N80572
From: Bill Doty <wdoty@seidata.com>
JIM,
I finally received the Cleveland wheels / Brakes for 80572..I beleive
the current wheel/brakes are original GoodYear and presume still have
what every brake fluid was used at that time. What fluid should I use
after a good flush out of the old fluid ?? Any other comments on the installation
??? BILL
Bill,
The fluid should be mil 5606. You will find the bleeder screws as furnished
will hit the ribs in the wheel well upon retraction. Substitute plain
1/8" Allan headed pipe plugs. You can get these at any hardware store
in steel or brass, if you want aluminum you need to get them from an aircraft
source. For bleeding, just crack them open slightly. It may be best to
bleed from the bottom up with a pressure pot. To bleed the old fashioned
way, remove the brake head from the axle, leaving the 1/4" hose intact,
loosen clamps as necessary, hold the brake up as high as possible, above
the wing centersection, and bleed, you can get extra air out of it this
way.Use the break in procedure as given in the mfrs. instructions. Don't
tighten the 1/8" pipe plugs extremely tight, the pipe thread can break
the aluminum casting. Where did you get your brakes? Most suppliers have
been out of the 199-48 kits. Pass your old Goodyear's on to someone who
is trying to stay all original! Some parts for them are getting hard to
find. (and expensive)! -- Jim
CLEVELAND WHEELS AND
BRAKES INSTALLATION PART TWO... (12399)
Subject: Re: GOODYEAR
From: Bill Doty <wdoty@seidata.com>
JIM,
Thanks for the quick reply. I got the (Cleveland) brakes thru Joe at Swift
Parts. Took 2-3 months to get them. You can put out the news that I have
the original parts available, to anyone that needs them. I have no idea
what a fair price is for the used parts. How do you i.d. hi-flange vs
lo-flange in case someone wants to know ? -- BILL
Bill,
I can tell by looking, but it's hard to explain, the low flange have a
small puck (lining) about the size of a quarter and a fairly small disk,
not having one here, I can't give you dimensions. The high flange have
a puck over an inch in diameter and a bigger disk. Most '46's had high
flange brakes. The '48 and later had low flange brakes. Local (MN) Swifter
Pat Moore has a pretty good set of low flange Goodyear's, complete with
decent tires, for $200. I would guess that N80572 had high flange Goodyear's,
if they are in good shape, I would guess they might be worth about the
same. I gave my old Goodyear's away for nothing to a guy who was doing
authentic restoration. You might consider donating your Goodyear's to
the Swift Museum. -- Jim
GEORGE'S BRAKE PROBLEMS
RESOLVED... (12499)
In recent updates Monty and others have dealt with George McClellan's
brake woes which involved poor brake effectiveness with his Clevelands.
Here is the final info from George on those problems...
From: George McClellan <WWIIPILOT@aol.com>
The brake problem was brake linings that in the past had been soaked in
oil. I could sand them off and they would look good until I tried to reseat
them. I would find an oil residue on the disk. It is nice to be able to
do an engine runup. George
WEAK LINK IN THE BRAKE
SYSTEM...
From Swifter GENE GILLOTT,
BC, Canada. 7JAN97
Once, during a run up, I suddenly had the left brake pedal go "limp" with
the tendency of the bird to make a sharp left turn on the apron. Could
have been serious if it had occurred during a cross wind landing! The
problem turned out to be the aluminum linkage between the left brake pedal
and the master cylinder. These appear to be stamped out of sheet stock
and there is not that much material around the bolt holes at either end.
The holes elongate due to wear and probably never see any lubrication.
In this case, the material was so thin that it finally let go when full
brake pressure was applied with the resulting loss of braking action.
I mentioned this to Charlie some years back but it doesn't hurt to bring
it up again. A close inspection every few years would be not a bad idea.
EVIL GOO...
From Swifter DICK COLLINS, California. 15MAY97
Ran across a couple of things that should be of interest to Swifters and
a lot of other GA types. The first problem was with Bill Gass’ Swift,
and occurred after about three years of storage. The aircraft was inspected
and returned to service. Bill was experiencing ground handling directional
problems that eventually ended up in a non damaging groundloop. (Editor’s
note: For those of you who don’t know Bill, if a Swift groundloops
and he is at the controls, you can be damn sure it’s a mechanical
problem...) To make a long story short the difficulty was determined to
be in the brakes. When the brake line was disconnected at the wheel cylinder
and brake pressure was applied, a gooey substance was excreted from the
brake line, This was ongnally 5606 “red juice” that had congealed.
Bill has a retractable, non steerable tail wheel that requires some braking
for directional control. The congealed fluid caused a delay in the action
of the brakes, and another delay in the removal of brake application.
Not good situation.
I just started overhaul
on all of my Swift hydraulics. Flap actuator looked good no leaks. All
o-rings looked good, that is not squared of f, and still pliable. Fluid
clean with slight film residue on the bottom of actuator end pieces. Removal
of the brake lines at the wheel cylinders indicated the same problem that
Bill had, but probably not quite as congealed. The 5606 brake fluid took
about ten minutes for the first drop to come out. A couple of tablespoons
of this “goo” slowly d;ipped out before normal fluid flow started.
The line was 601 Aeroquip and is supplying fluid to Cleveland 30-798 brake
assemblies, and had been installed for more than ten years without the
need to bleed the system.
On Bill’s Swift the
line was fabric covered, thought to be 303 Aeroquip, supplying Goodyear
high flange brakes. We are unsure what brand 5606 was used in both aircraft
as the original fluid, but it would he highly unlikely that it came from
the same manufacturer and batch. I have noticed in the past that when
the lid is removed from the one gallon can of 5606 a spider web thin sticky
“string” is formed. This is also observed sometimes when the
aircraft reservoir filler plugs are removed. The circulating fluid in
the systems appeared good.
SUMMARY:
SUBJECT: Red hydraulic fluid
Mil 5606
PROBLEM: Fluid solidifies/congeals
when there is little or no circulation.
POSSIBLE CAUSE: Oxidation
and/or chemical combination with hose liner or die-cast aluminum.
RECOMMENOATION: On any “dead
end” hydraulic system the technician should consider bleeding the
system every several years.
Dick Collins
NOT CHEAP DEPT: CLEVELAND
BRAKES ON A SWIFT... (040200)
Subject: Cleveland brakes
From: Roy Cook <RCook63133@aol.com>
Hello Jim, It has been a while since I e-mailed u, Hope you are well.
As you know, my little bird has Goodyear brakes. I would like to change
them to Cleveland brakes. I found them for the Swift at Chief Aircraft.
The price for brakes with chrome discs is $825. Do you know of somewhere
I may be able to find them at a better price. The kit number is 199-48c.
Thank You, Roy
Roy,
I don't think anyone sells them for less than Chief. I think the list
price is over $1,000.00 When I bought my set for my present Swift I checked
around and Chief had the cheapest price in the country. Actually, I feel
that is still a pretty good deal. Having said that, for a GC-1A you must
be aware that Cleveland wheels and brakes are heavier (8 pounds I think)
than the Goodyears. I would hesitate to tell you NOT to install Clevelands,
but try to keep the weight down on the poor little airplane. If it were
my GC -1A, I would keep the Goodyears and maintain them very carefully.
Yes, I did have Clevelands on my last GC-1A. -- Jim
GO GO GO WITH GOODYEAR...
(040300)
Subject: Re: Goodyear Brakes
From: Roy Cook <RCook63133@aol.com>
Jim, I got your e-mail answer to my question about the conversion of the
Goodyear brakes to Clevelands on my GC-1A and have decided to stay with
the Goodyears. Now I have to ask where do I get part numbers and parts
I need to overhaul them. I've looked in the manuals that I bought but
I don't see anything in them that give the answers I need. I'm sorry if
these are questions I should know the answer to, but I don't. Thanks again,
Roy
Roy,
There are two versions of Goodyear wheels and brakes, the high flange
and low flange. I presume you have the high flange. There might be some
new parts out there, but you probably don't want to even know the prices.
So many sets of Goodyear wheels and brakes have been removed that there
have to be a lot of them available used. I would advertise and try to
buy several sets of used Goodyears and use the best parts to build up
a serviceable set. Be aware they were probably not removed in excellent
condition! I know the set of Goodyears I removed from my Swift were worn
out. Remember, the reason I suggested retaining the Goodyears in your
case was the fact that they are lighter than the Clevelands and your GC-1A
doesn't need extra empty weight. If you can't find some serviceable used
parts, or if you don't have the ability to overhaul your own brakes, I
suggest you go back to plan "A" and call Joe at Swift Parts and see if
they can give you a good price on Clevelands. -- Jim
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