MONTY THE ANSWER MAN
ARCHIVE...
POLISHING...
SWIFT
MUSEUM FOUNDATION POLISHING VIDEO INFO CLICK HERE
GOOD RESOURCES FOR POLISHING
INFORMATION...
From: Doc Moore <darladoc@sport.rr.com>
Subject: www.perfectpolish.com
I have the Foundation's video on polishing, which is very good, but it
does not have the needed detail for us polishing novices. I read all of
the archives concerning polishing and would ask that you add the following
website for the members to refer to. Perfect Polish has a great site with
a lot of good information for those of us trying to figure out how to
make the metal shine. Their website is www.perfectpolish.com.
Over the past few nights I've been trying to clean up some of the original
metal on my Swift. The skin between my starboard wing walk and the wing
strap is in pretty bad shape. I started by sanding with 400 wet then went
to 1000 wet. I then rotary compounded with a Makita auto buffer at 650
RPM using Nuvite F7. The metal never would come up the way I wanted so
I went back and re-sanded starting with 600 wet then to 1000, 1500, and
finally 2000. Must of sanded on that 2ftX3ft square for over 3 hours total.
Then used a foam compounding pad with the Makita and Nuvite G6. It started
coming up but when I finished it looked like my wife's tarnished silver.
I realized at that point that the metal was not thoroughly dry when I
started buffing so I left it alone, came back the next day, put a little
F7 on a dry rag and did a 2" square with my finger. It came right
up.When I read everything on the Perfect Polish website, and thought back
over the Foundation's video, I discovered what I was doing wrong. This
information is a great piece for the archive. I suspect lots of folks
know about it 'cause Ed Lloyd's Swift is one of the planes pictured on
the home page. I'm sure glad I don't have to hand sand my whole bird.
As anal as I am I'd have to draw the line there.Cheers, Doc Moore
Doc
Q. How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
A. Practice, practice, practice........
Q. How do you make your Swift shine?
A. Polish, polish, polish.......
-- Jim
DONT WE KNOW THIS GUY?
(Swifter Steve Wilson replies to a aviation newsgroup question about polishing.)
Well, I have two polished Swifts and have been polishing for almost 30
years. I still do not feel that I am any expert on polishing. It is more
of an art form than anything else.
The major problem is that
almost everything causes variables in the outcome of the work (even the
weather). I think that one of the problems that beginners have is not
understanding that there are two steps, i.e., cleaning and polishing.
To give you an idea, when you get to the point where you can shave in
the reflection, you are about to the point where the metal is clean enough
to begin to polish.
Having a feel for the metal
is something that you have to develop over time and is almost impossible
to teach someone. It can be learned, but I only know a handful of folks
who really understand the process. Once you begin to see (and feel) what
is going on, the easier the task becomes.
You say that you have tried
it all. Well, good! After you start on a really corroded (pitted) finish
with a sponge type scuff pad you can move up to sand with progressively
finer sandpaper, starting with 800 grit and working up to 1500 grit. I
like "Met-al" and "Rolite Pre-polish" for really rough surfaces. Then
work up to finer abrasive type polishes like "Rolite metal polish," "Alu-Mag,"
and/or "Blue Magic." Take your time ( I work about a 6"-8" square
area at a time starting with a circular buffer, working to an orbital
buffer, and then the last two or three applications by hand. Overlap your
areas and keep wiping the entire work down often.
Don't give up! It's great
quiet time (I get a lot off my mind and it beats the heck out of a visit
to the shrink). --- Steve Wilson (stevewlson@aol.com)
POLISHED ERCOUPE...
I have tried every product on the market (I think) on my Ercoupe (see
it just after it was polished at http://ercoupe.com) I currently suggest
3-M Polishing Paper (hard to find) on an electric 5" orbital sander. It
comes in 30 micron, 15, 9 and 3 grades and you use it with 3in1 oil on
very poor surfaces. I then use nu-vite polish, which I just found out
about at OSH. It is a lot of work but the result is very nice. Email me
if you need info on where to buy this stuff. --- David Abrams (dea@ercoupe.com)
TURCO?
Anyone else here ever use Turco? I've tried many polishes as well but
this stuff out-performs them all.... It's apparently an industrial
grade polished used on airliners. Most of the customers buy it in 55 gallon
drums! I swear by the stuff now and won't use anything else. You
may have a little trouble getting it in small quantities. I got mine from
a fella who talked a distributor into filling a 5 gallon pail. He kept
what he needed and has been selling off small quantities at local fly-in's
/ airshows. If you know any folks in the airliner maintenance business,
ask them if they use Turco and if so, can you get a small sample to play
with. --- Bela P. Havasreti (snj-5@mailexcite.com)
ED'S EXCELLENT POLISHING
ADVENTURE... (11199)
From: Ed Lloyd <edlloydaustin@juno.com>
Subject: Polish
Hi Denis,
I see on the "chat" that you ordered some Nuvite. I tried all kinds of
stuff on the market and finally broke down and bought the video from the
foundation. Learned a lot. I was still getting the milkiness or the milkiness
wasn't disappearing. Talked with the guys that made the video and they
suggested I use F7, C, and then S. Lotta work but it did the trick. The
technique I used was F7 on with a SLOW speed rotary buffer and it does
magic. Follow that with C and the cyclo or in my case I used a single
head Bosch orbital sander. The rags I used were from Sams Wholesale, white
terry 100% cotton( 95-5 not available around here) and turn them four
times on each side, and quite often. That last technique took out the
swirl marks of the rotary buffer. Since I wasn't able to do the entire
aircraft at one polishing, I then cleaned the area, 2x2 or maybe 2x3 with
a windex wipe down until the rags being used were virtually not picking
up any black residue. I averted the wash job of the entire aircraft as
they did in the video. THEN I applied the S and used the Bosch orbital
and put the final polish on the job. I'm now satisfied and I'm hard to
satisfy. Try it, you'll like it! -- Cheers...Ed
ENDORSEMENT FOR THE POLISHING
TAPE FROM THE ANSWER MAN HIMSELF... (040500)
From: Monty747@aol.com
Subject: Swift Polishing Tape
Denis, Another Minnesota Swifter and myself went together and popped
the $29.95 for the Polishing Tape from the Swift Association. It is great!
After 35 years of polishing I know how to polish a Swift right? Well,
yes but, the tape puts it all together very well. I highly recommend it.
-- Jim
DOES POLISHING REMOVE THE ALCAD??? (070101)
From the Perfect Polish <http://www.perfectpolish.com/> website:
"Will
repeated polishing remove the Alcad coating? Not
according to Boeing. As a quality control measure Boeing polishes all
of their exterior skin sections after forming using robotic polishers
and Nuvite F-7. Apparently defects in the skin are easier to spot when
polished. They once polished a section 370 times and the surface cladding
(Alcad) was still there. Boeing says that polishing does not remove metal,
it just 'turns it over'. Of course if the surface is badly corroded or
has been sanded, the Alcad will be gone. But it will polish up nicely
anyway."
NUVITE... USE IT OR LOSE IT???(050102)
From: Pete King <peetking@earthlink.net>
Subject: polishing
Hi Denis,
Went to the horse -- called the folks at NUVITE. The man ( John ) that
I talked to was very forthcoming and helpful. He told me that the haze
problem could be because of the polish or the rags. Nuvite guarantees
the polish for a shelf life of one year from the date of manufacture.
Beyond that, factors of heat or cold can cause it to lose it's structure
( effectiveness ). In addition, he cautioned me against mixing up my rags
-- only use a rag for one grade of polish -- don't wash a rag used for
C and then use it for a finer grade next time you polish ( A or S ). Use
only pure cotton rags to reduce scratching. Nuvite does sell their polish
in half and quarter pound containers. I hope Swift stocks the smaller
sizes -- I'm sure what I have is at least two years old. As for the rags
-- another OOOPS ! for me -- won't make that mistake again. Will let you
know how the next round turns out. Regards, Pete King
FAIRWELL GLASS WAX - HELLO NUVITE... (AUG 03)
Ah Glass Wax.. Been rubbing that stuff on good ‘ol 07Kilo since I was
14 years old. I liked how it cleaned things up between polishing sessions.
Now I’ve just about gone through my last container of "Glass Wax"
and to the best of my knowledge and research on the internet it is not
going to be produced anymore. (I did spot an additional can in Erin’s
Swift but dare I take it??? Yeah... Right...) So, anyway, it was real
nice to read in the latest SMF newsletter that Nuvite has developed something
that works, as SMF prez Charlie Nelson stated, "...similar to Glass
Wax.". Looks like Nuvite to the rescue. Swift Parts has it. Let the
ordering begin. Cheers... Denis
POLISHING A NEW SPINNER... (SEPT 03)
From: Harry Fenton <Harry.Fenton@unison.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Re: Polishing
I purchased a new spinner from Univair and it has relatively deep marks
from the spinning process. To achieve a mirror finish, it looks like these
marks need to be removed by some other method than simple polishing. Any
thoughts on the best way to smooth the surface of a new spinner?
Harry
Sand those marks down with whatever grit sandpaper it takes - preferably
the finest that takes off the high spots, the finer grit you use, the
less work later on. (say 600) You want to finish up with 2000 grit. (very
fine) For the rest of the skin, don't waste your time polishing from scratch.
Use the 2000 grit wet before you even start. Avoid the rivets! Also, the
Swift Museum Foundation sells an excellent video detailing polishing "secrets."
The Nuvite process is very good and the final polish from Nuvite is the
best there is, although instead of the coarser grades you can use some
"Brand X" polish which may be cheaper. -- Jim
POLISH AROUND THE RIVETS... (DEC 03)
From: Mark Holliday <MarkH85@aol.com>
Subject: Re: December #1 GTS Internet Update
Hi Denis, Old polish around the rivets. The bug and tar remover usually
worked for me although I did end up using a toothbrush . Also lacquer
thinner with a toothbrush or other nylon brush seemed to work. Although
I don't like using it, except extreme cases, an aluminum bightner or etch,
like Intex or Dupont 225S will clean old polish away, but your in for
a major polish job after the wash and very thorough rinse. Mark
GETTING THAT PERFECT POLISH... (MAR 04)
From: Doc Moore <darladoc@sport.rr.com>
Subject: www.perfectpolish.com
I have the Foundation's video on polishing, which is very good, but it
does not have the needed detail for us polishing novices. I read all of
the archives concerning polishing and would ask that you add the following
website for the members to refer to. Perfect Polish has a great site with
a lot of good information for those of us trying to figure out how to
make the metal shine. Their website is www.perfectpolish.com.
Over the past few nights
I've been trying to clean up some of the original metal on my Swift. The
skin between my starboard wing walk and the wing strap is in pretty bad
shape. I started by sanding with 400 wet then went to 1000 wet. I then
rotary compounded with a Makita auto buffer at 650 RPM using Nuvite F7.
The metal never would come up the way I wanted so I went back and re-sanded
starting with 600 wet then to 1000, 1500, and finally 2000. Must of sanded
on that 2ftX3ft square for over 3 hours total. Then used a foam compounding
pad with the Makita and Nuvite G6. It started coming up but when I finished
it looked like my wife's tarnished silver. I realized at that point that
the metal was not thoroughly dry when I started buffing so I left it alone,
came back the next day, put a little F7 on a dry rag and did a 2"
square with my finger. It came right up.
When I read everything on
the Perfect Polish website, and thought back over the Foundation's video,
I discovered what I was doing wrong. This information is a great piece
for the archive. I suspect lots of folks know about it 'cause Ed Lloyd's
Swift is one of the planes pictured on the home page. I'm sure glad I
don't have to hand sand my whole bird. As anal as I am I'd have to draw
the line there. Cheers, Doc Moore
Doc
Q. How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
A. Practice, practice, practice........
Q. How do you make your Swift shine?
A. Polish, polish, polish.......
-- Jim
HARRY IS GONNA DO SOME SANDING...(MAR 04)
By the way, I'm getting ready to sand the lower surfaces of the Swift
prior to polishing as you suggested. I've got some 2000 grade wet/dry
on hand- what is your suggestion for the high and low end for sanding
grades? Harry
Harry
I wouldn't use sandpaper rougher than 2000 unless the skin is very corroded
and pitted. If it's that bad I would suggest sanding with 600 and painting
the lower surface. Nuvite has various grades of polish and after using
the 2000 grit one of the coarser grades should be used first. The final
polish with Nuvite cannot be beat with any other polish that I have seen.
Contact Swift Parts for further information. -- Jim
INTENSE POLISHING DIALOGUE
FOLLOWS...(MAY 04)
Subj: Polishing
From: Doc Moore <darladoc@sport.rr.com>
Need some advice. On new metal I had to sand some spots to clean up some
junk that wouldn't come off with solvent. I used 600 wet until it was
clean. I then compounded the whole piece with G6 followed by F7 (used
F7 3 times). The metal came up real well. I then used the Cyclo with F7
followed by S. It shines like a mirror. The only problem is the spots
where I sanded are very cloudy and when I rolled the airplane outside
it looks like crap. Can't figure out what to do unless I go back and sand
with progressively finer paper until I get to 1500 or 2000. I don't think
that's the answer and may wash with Alumiprep 33 on those areas. I suspect
its silica from the paper and aluminum dust. Got any thoughts or experience
with this particular problem? Thanks, Doc
Doc
600 paper is pretty rough, you will have to use finer grit before polishing.
You might try 2000 sandpaper, then acid etch with alumiprep. Most polishing
problems are from going too fine -- too soon. -- Jim
Doc
Jim's answer is the same as mine would have been with the following addition.
I only use the cyclo with Nuvite 'S' for final polishing only. When trying
to bring out an old piece of aluminum, new in your case, I use a slow
speed rotary Makita buffer with the flat sheep wool buffing bonnet I told
you about earlier. By applying F-7 or G directly to the wool, the rotary
motion seems to 'cut' better than with the cyclo. Then the final polish
is done with the cyclo to take out the swirl marks. The Makita buffer
must be slowed down to about 1300 RPM so you don't "burn" the
aluminum. I found that once you burn a spot, it is there to stay. No amount
of progressive sanding and polishing will take it out. In fact, if you
have the polishing video, Charlie and Joe Ranson show that as the way
to polish initially on an unpolished surface. Cheers..............Ed Lloyd
MORE INTENSE POLISHING DIALOGUE...(MAY 04)
From: Doc Moore <darladoc@sport.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Polishing
Ed & Jim:
Thanks for your remarks. I didn't make my process clear. I sanded with
600 wet very lightly only to remove the debris on the metal. I then compounded
with G6 followed by 3 applications of F7 using a Makita buffer turning
at 650 RPM using a 3M wool bonnet. It shines at that point well enough
to shave in. I then use the cyclo with 95/5 fleece starting with F7 to
remove the swirl marks then switching (with fresh fleece) to S for final
polishing. The technique is correct because all of the metal takes on
a swirl free mirror finish. The only exception is the area lightly scuffed
with the 600. The Perfect Polish website experiments indicate that to
go beyond 600 is unnecessary. They also had trouble and solved it by washing
with Alumiprep 33. The issue is... do you need to sand your butt off all
the way to 2000 or can you stop at 600. On my old metal over the right
tank I sanded (probably 6 hours) on that square all the way to 2000...
starting with 600 then to 1000 then to 1500 and then 2000. Then I compounded
as mentioned above (you don't compound with a Cyclo) and it came up but
not clear like new metal. I then did the left side but sanded only with
600 then washed with Alumiprep 33 and then compounded with F7. It wouldn't
come up at all (that's depressing!) I then sanded with 600 and let dry
overnite then compounded with G6, F7 3 times (I spur that bonnet about
every 4th pass), then Cycloed with F7 and S. It came up about the same
as the other side. The moral of the story?? I don't have a clue. Just
a alot of work without a good result. As Steve Wilson said on the archive...
its hard to teach someone the technique... you've got to figure it out
for yourself. I'm there on new metal but not on old. Jim, I'll do as you
say and go back and sand those areas with 2000 that I hit with 600 on
my new metal. Will then etch them to remove the silica and aluminum dust.
Then will re-compound them. The beat goes on! I certainly don't have all
the answers but want to share with others to assist in the learning curve....both
wrong as well as right techniques. Thanks for your input and any future
thoughts you might have. -- Doc
Doc
Maybe you are just fussier than me! I can't say I have ever used a great
deal of thought or science to my polishing. I get it "good enough"
then think, "well there's always next year"..... I did win the
best polish award at Ky Dam and Athens a few times tho. Maybe that was
because N2334B and N2431B had pretty nice skin. -- Jim
NOTE TO POLISHERS. DON’T
PUSH TOO HARD!!! (MAY 04)
From: Elfavi <elfavi@olypen.com>
Subject: Re: May #4 GTS Internet Update
Gerry Mahoney looks at the polishing forum:
As I look at the comments on polishing I always read too much heat in
a local area. Read burned! It is very easy to exceed the critical temperature
of a particular alloy (24ST, 2024-T3, etc) and reduce the strength. I
doubt if you would use skins off of a burned area on a scrapped airplane.
Would you use a skin that suffered the same temps from polishing? Just
an observation. More to the aging aircraft problem than mother nature....
-- Gerry Mahoney
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