MONTY THE ANSWER MAN ARCHIVE

SEATS


CESSNA 150/152 SEATS...(4199)
From: Bob Runge <ejectr@javanet.com>
I have Cessna 150 or 152 seats in my Swift.  First of all, how can I tell if they are 150 or 152 seats? I believe the 152 seats have the AD on them and not the 150 seats.....correct? Secondly, asking this question I obviously have no paperwork or log entries as to their appearance. What do I need? I hope not a field approval. My airfilter is now in the hands of my FSDO engineering department. Who knows how much longer.

Bob:
The really correct way to handle it is to have a field approval - but my reaction when the FAA gets on one of their non-cooperative kicks is just to not tell them about it. When you think about it, the seat belt attachment points are not affected, so you might consider it a minor alteration. Is there a part number visible anywhere? The 152 seats are a little wider, but I can't tell them apart. The upholstery pattern might be a clue, but I'm no 150/152 expert. All Cessna's have an AD note on the seat tracks, 87-20-03, but none on the seats that I know of. I would just not mention it, if you're AI wants to get a field approval, let him. Dozens of Swifts have been field approved with 150/152 seats however. -- Jim

MAY THERE BE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 150 AND 152 SEATS AFTER ALL? (4399)
Subject: Re: Cessna l50 & 152 seats
From: Dennis Ghering <Swift1946@aol.com>
Hi Jim:
While reading the April GTS #1 nternet update for April the questions about Cessna 150 & 152 seats. The seats are different the way they look and have a different hinge system on the back rests. The tracks have a different width, if I remember right, The width of the 152 track is about 3/4 to 1 inch narrower then the 150 seat. I know this for a fact because there were 150 seats in my swift when I first bought it . I decided that the 152 seat looks better and the back rest hinges were a better design , though I could just slip the seats in the same tracks without doing any thing, but found out the hard way the track widths were different. -- Dennis

Dennis:
Hmm..I installed 152 Seats in Gerald Beckers N3741K and thought the seats themselves were wider. Regardless, I will fwd. your info to Denis, maybe it will save someone else some work. -- Jim

CESSNA 150/152 SEATS IN A SWIFT... (5599)
From: "Williams, Rand" <Williara@aircraft.hill.af.mil>
I'm trying to find out from whom I can obtain the STC to install Cessna 150 seats in a Swift. Your site is not completed yet, and I cannot seem to get the FAA web site to come up for the Swift STC's. We want to install the seats in N3324K S/N 1317 owned by Jack Francis of Perry, UT. My name is Rand Williams, CFI and A&P. I am a member of the Swift Association (even though I don't own one). I flew Jack's Swift to Brigham City, UT from Lincoln, NE about one month ago, and unfortunately a week later high winds, to the tune of 113 MPH, blew the hangar doors in and damaged the leading edges of both wings and the cowling (which we had off the aircraft at the time). So, while it is out of commission for a while we would like to take care of the seat problem. I would appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks, Rand Williams

Rand,
There is no STC for C-150 seats in a Swift. I looked into this quite thoroughly some years ago. The problem is, there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of different part numbers for C-150 seats and you would have to list all of them. My FAA inspector friend threw up his hands and said, "I think I better just give you a field approval on this". The seat belt attachments are not affected, so its really no big deal. There is an aluminum strip (something less than .100) that goes under the floor as a doubler, picking up the attach screws. I think this is part of the Cessna seat track installation. I forgot to mention, there is a new requirement on 337 approvals. Its called "continued airworthiness". For the C-150 seats, you should make a statement, "For continued airworthiness AD 87-20-13 R2 complied with and must be performed at each annual inspection". AD notes for C-150 seats and seat tracks should be entered in the aircraft AD check list.  --  Jim

CESSNA 150/152 SEATS...(7199)
From: "Ernie and/or Penny Hansen" <ern&pen@tenforward.com>
Subject: 150/152 Seats

Getting ready to find some seats for my rebuild project. I have read the past articles in the newsletters regarding the possible differences between the 150 and 152 seats. The various articles left me confused whether there is a difference and if so, would the difference (possible seat rail width) present a problem with installation on a ribbed floor? Would hate to pick the wrong seat and have one rail on a peak and the other in a valley! Any help clarifying this matter would be appreciated. -- Ernie Hansen

Ernie,
The ribbed floor on the early s/n's goes spanwise, in other words 90 degrees to the direction of the seat tracks. If 150 seat tracks are installed in one of these early airplanes the existing holes at the edge of the seat track may not line up perfectly with a "high" corrugation, new holes would have to be drilled, and a new doubler installed under the floor. I have not personally installed 150 seats in one of these early airplanes, but Dennis Ghering has them in s/n 74 and Ron Erickson has them in s/n 157. (I'm not sure when they quit making the floors like that) The seats vary in height, so you should try yours for fit before permanently installing them. Dennis Gehring has 152 seats in his Swift (s/n 74). He formerly had 150 seats installed. He says the early "corrogated" floor models are the easiest and best models to install 150/152 seats in. He used a strip of hardwoood about 21" long, tapered 1/8" to 3/4" under the seat track which allows the adjusting mechanism to clear the spar. Also, makes it "sit" right and rolls back nicely. To get a seat track 21" long, he used one whole 150 track, and 1/2 of another one. He says you can use a 172 track also.-- Jim

Reply From: Don Bartholomew <spectro@nanosecond.com>
Organization: The Aeroplane Factory
Ernie,
First, I am not well versed on Cessna's, but I have seen a few differences. The problem is that I am not sure what differences go with what model.

The "normal" 150 seat is fairly low (about five to six inches above the floor). I have seen this type of seat with the legs for the tracks going straight down from the seat frame and also with one side going straight down, and the other side going inboard at about a 15 degree angle. I believe these are both 150 seats but of different years. There is another seat that I have been told is from the 152 that has a jackscrew arrangement to raise the entire seat. I don't know if all 152's had this or if it was just an upgrade. This seat is too high for a tall person. The legs on these were one side straight down and the other angled inboard. My suggestion is to measure the floor, then look at different seats and measure them to see which will work best for your application.

It has been too long since I have seen a corrugated floor to remember, but do the corrugations go fore /aft, or side to side? I seem to remember side to side, but I could be wrong about that. The corrugated floor should be strong enough to mount the rails directly to the floor without any additional stiffeners. Good Luck -- Don and Helo

IN SEARCH OF STOCK SWIFT SEATS...  (12199)
From: Austin Smith <P51pilot44@cs.com>
Subject: seats
Dear Jim,
I've been having trouble finding new seats for a swift 125. The wood board on the bottom has rotted away. I have been trying to find some over the internet without any luck. Your help would be appreciated. Austin Smith

Austin,
There are probably a lot of used original seats out there, try an ad in all the newsletters and perhaps, Trade-A-Plane. I made new bottoms for my Swift and the Swift I owned before that using the old seats as patterns. It's not too hard to do. -- Jim

HOW SMALL CHANGES CAN BECOME REAL PROJECTS...  (12299)
From: Keith Bracht <kab_bjb@skat.net>
Subject: Swift Stuff
Denis,
Well, what started out as a small change has blossomed into a real project. On the trip from Arlington to Westover and back I decided that the stock bench seat wasn't all that comfortable for my big carcass. I bought some used 150 seats to install but the old material used for the side panels and bench are no longer available. So, now I have an entirely new interior. Once the old one was out and laying on the hanger floor I realized how much it needed replacing anyway. The new seats are great. We had the upholstery work done by North Country Upholstery at Arlington, WA. I'd recommend their work to anyone. Besides, they have a picture of your airplane hanging on the wall so they must know what they're doing. Thanks, Keith

BACK SEAT DRIVERS (REAR SEATS IN SWIFTS...) (030201)
From: sthomp@swlink.net
Our 6 year old daughter (40 lbs) was with us (for lunch...not flying) and the subject of a 3rd seat came up. I had seen a reference to it as part of the panel STC...seems strange! Joel said you had done one for someone in the past sometime. Is there a viable (legal) 3rd seat mod? We have always taken her whenever we did cross countries in the Comanches and would like to have that ability in the Swift. The tailwheel is now 100%...with installation of the new arm assy. BTW, my P/N is 3214T. The T means heavy duty. I had to call Scott to find out why my old arm assy looked different than the drawings in the catalog. It's functionally the same as 3214, but has larger "arms". I probably could have used the 3214 and saved about $15, but perhaps there are other differences that I could not see. I do notice a slight improvement in right foot steerability now. Also finally fixed the "no red light on gear up" problem...it was a broken lead on the dropping resistor going to the red light socket. The break was inside a spaghetti sleeve and not visible. -- Steve

Steve,
There is an STC for a rear seat in a Swift. I do not recommend it, it kind of ruins the airplane both from the "feel" and character of the Swift but also from a structural standpoint. I only know of one I did on N80539 and one Bruce Volpe did on N3793K. The drawings are not very good and show some things that cannot be done, like intersecting two angles without notching one. Also, the tie channel behind the seat has to be removed, which I don't feel is a very good idea. I installed the seat in 1972 for our 12 year old daughter, who is now 41 years old and has a little one of her own. Kids grow up, but Swifts don't heal up major surgeries and revert back to original configuration! I used to attend some fly-ins with my daughter. Other times, my wife went with me and Margy went with Mark Holliday in his Swift. A Swift doesn't handle to good at an aft CG well beyond the aft limit. I guess my recommendation would be, if you absolutely need a back seat, get one of the 4 place aircraft which are available. -- Jim

SEAT BELT/HARNESS...(040601)
From: Bill Weaver <Swift238@aol.com>
Subject: Re: April #5 GTS Internet Update
You might want to pass this along to Jim and some Swifters who were in the last Newsletter. The STC'd (mulitple) shoulder harness assembly I had was sold to Monte Zema. This is the one Chuck Lischer started and I completed. I am not sure if the Assoc. has these or not. I lost track of Monte a few years ago. Swifters could buy them from the Assoc. for years....not sure now.  See ya, Bill

SHOULDER HARNESS APPROVALS... (060301)
Subj: Shoulder harness 337
From: Jon Tuuri <JTuuri@aol.com>
Monty
I have installed Hooker harnesses in the swift using the hardware that Vaughn supplies from Swiftworks. I think the hardware is a copy of the hardware used in one of the STC for harnesses. My mechanic is looking for a 337 field approval for that type of install so he can attach it to mine for processing. Do you know of any one who might have a 337 field approval for this type of installation?

Jon
Just quote the angles in AC43.13-2A and shoot it through. The FAA is real "easy" on shoulder harnesses these days. Their theory is a bad installation is better than no harness at all. Sorry, I don't have a 337 copy, but that should not be a problem. -- Jim

DOC FOUND MONTE ZEMA...(020102)
Subj: Re: Shoulder Harness
From: Doc Moore <darladoc@sport.rr.com>
Jim:
Monte is still selling them. (Shoulder harnesses) He has the belts made as he gets orders but says the belts are getting very expensive. He has the STC so it would appear his deal is the way to go. The last set he sold he got $500 and said he didn't make any money. He is going to call Wag Aero and see if they'll make them any cheaper. Told me to send him a letter and he would send me the info and pics. He also has the Lischer P-51 gear door STC and gets $500 for a set. Also has the STC'd cowling for the 200 Lyc conversion and the Lischer Stick STC (or maybe he said "like Lischer sticks"... don't remember which). Anyone interested can write him at Custom Swift Modifications, 769A Williams Lake Road, Colville, Wash 99114. I reached him at the 509-684-2601 number which sounded like his hangar. Said he is still working on Swifts a lot.

Doc,
In the US, there is an STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) for installing the shoulder harness. It is held by Monte Zema, 771 Adam Sherry Rd, Colville, WA 99114, USA Phone 1-509-684-5348 or 1-509-684-2501 The latest price for the STC'ed shoulder harness is pricey at $500 US. Mr Zema was going to try and get a better price from a different supplier last I heard. The STC'ed shoulder harness anchors to a couple of steel brackets bolted with AN -3 bolts to the "T" extrusion aft of the seat. Also, in the US the FAA has published a book, AC43.13-2A which details how to install a commercially available shoulder harness. I won't try and inspect your airplane from thousands of miles away, but if you have specific questions I will try and answer them. -- Jim

SHOULDER HARNESS APPROVAL... (FEB 03)
Subj: 337
From: Bud England <dalswift1@aol.com
Monty: As you know, it is now virtually impossible to get a 337 okayed. What in the world am I going to do about shoulder harnesses? Bud

Bud
Shoulder harnesses are still one thing that's pretty easy to get approved. Just make sure you do it per AC43.13-2A. -- Jim

CESSNA SEAT RAILS... (NOV 03)
Subj: N3741K C-152 Seats
From: milehighdittmers@comcast.net (Mile High Dittmers)
Jim,
So I read the email on C-150/152 seats. N3741K, Gerald Beckerís old Swift, seat rails are really chewed up with drill holes and the bushings simply donít roll without a fight. I want to replace them but canít figure out how. I saw in the email you put the seats in 3741K? Do you know what seat rail and bushings to order? What serial number or year of Cessna they came from? That they are actually C-152 vs. C-150 seats? I couldnít find a logbook entry or other info in the stuff Iíve got. Trying hard to get 3741K up to airworthy condition, Henry

Henry
That was a long time ago, but as I recall those were 152 seats. I think I got a field approval on them from the FAA, the 337 form should be in the aircraft records. Seats are something that the FAA inspectors are not supposed to approve under the new rules. Gerald bought those seats, but the 152 seats a little too wide and don't work as well as the 150 seats. The seat rails and rollers can be purchased from McFarlane Aviation Inc. 1-800-544-8594 I don't know what year and model your seats are but I think they are all the same. -- Jim

FAA GIVING THE SMITHSONIAN SWIFT SOME ATTENTION...(MAY 04)
Subj: NC 80518
From: Pete King <peetking@earthlink.net>
Hi Jim,
Still being hassled by the Feds over my fuel pump failure on 80518. Now I'm told that mounting my shoulder harness on the " A " frame roll over bars is not correct because of the angle of the bar. Knowing that I will be safer - - I could just remove them ( the shoulder harness ). In lieu of that stupid solution - - do you know of an acceptable way to mount the harness in aircraft with the 'A " frame set up ??? On another subject, I am told that a part that has been on an aircraft for a SUBSTANTIAL period and has operated well can be field approved and thus made legal. Do you happen to know where that regulation can be found ?? Thanks for your continuing service to our community, Pete

Pete
There is an STC for a shoulder harness in the Swift:Beltmaster shoulder harness: For Swift GC-1A,-1B series. STC#: SA1843NM Description: Installation of Beltmaster shoulder harness. Monte L. Zema, Route 4, Box 195, Colville, WA 99114. Now the shoulder harness is kind of expensive, you may not want to spend the money for an airplane you are giving away. For a quick, easy solution, maybe just removing the shoulder harness might be best. The field approval policy is not a regulation, but a policy in the FAA Inspectors handbook 8300.10. I forget the latest CHG, but it is something like 16 or 18. You can search it on the FAA site. -- Jim